collaborative_daredevil | General roleplays

I could go either way... The flashback, though, would be really, really, dark... (I'd been trying to imagine what it would be like for Mike... Everything I think of is so dark, and not just because he's blind, haha...) I think him telling Matt would probably be better - especially since you're right, we get to see his reaction... (of course, that also goes to very dark places... I like it, actually.)

It would be really dark, especially with Mike being a kid at the time. I mean if it were later on I'd be all for it, but it would lose a lot of it's impact that way. I'd definitely go with him telling Matt. Not planning on telling him though, so he's not actually prepared for it, or for Matt's reaction.

I'm still not clear what Matt's reaction will be, actually. He'll be pissed, obviously, but I can kind of see him not really doing anything at first, kind of internalizing the knowledge of what's happened while Mike continues to talk about it. Then finally saying really quietly, "I'm going to kill him," and actually meaning it. Like Mike's 100% certain that in that moment Matt fully intends to do as he says (even though he's not Daredevil and probably doesn't have the skills to take on Stick), so Mike has to talk him down.

Or something.

Ooh, or...

What if it is a flashback, but spread out over the course of the story. Like a few lines, a paragraph here and there in italics or something so the reader knows it's separate from the rest of the story, and maybe not actually naming names of the characters at first so the reader isn't sure exactly what's going on, but it becomes clear in the scene where Mike tells Matt.

Not sure exactly where I'm going with this, but do you get kind of what I mean?

Yeah, I do... I like it. Plus it'll eventually help serve the reader to find out how a sighted twin could have Matt's abilities - but they only get piece at a time.

He sits on a rickety cot bed, knees tucked up to his chest, back curved just slightly as he slumps a little. His hands worry the thin cotton sheet that covers the bed, gathering it into clumps, running it between fingers damp with sweat. He tries hard to control his breathing, prevent it from coming in the deep, hard gasps that his body is demanding. He stares forward, into nothing.

"Just gonna sit there all day?"

He gasps at the unexpected question, instinctively turning his head in that direction. He opens his mouth to answer, but it feels as though all the moisture has evaporated away. His tongue sticks to the roof of his mouth and he makes a strangled sound instead.

"Pathetic. It's done, kid. Nothing you can do about it now. Might as well get on with it."

My brother can do this. And he's a much better fighter than me. That thought should steady him, but it doesn’t.

He also fought blindfolded before on many occasion. He always had his ass kicked, but he was able to get a few hits in against his brother. Probably because he chose not to move out of the way...

But, this is a blindfold that won’t ever come off… The fear of forever brought a sensation of ice daggers needling into his gut. This was his world now. Forever.

He clutched harder at his knees. Darkness. Strange smells, sensations, sounds... too much of all of them to make any real sense in any way that matters.

If he is capable of doing this to me, what could he do to my brother? His heart raced faster. It was that thought that made him feel for the edge of the cot bed and swing to put both feet on the floor.

“I’m ready.”

Edited (to edit out Stick's name) 2016-04-24 05:38 (UTC)

I like yours - re-reading what I just wrote, I think it's probably still giving too much of it away. lol. Maybe the final cut would get rid of the mention of fighting with a blindfold to be more vague. That and the part about a blindfold that would never come off..

So this:

My brother can do this. And he's a much better fighter than me. That thought should steady him, but it doesn’t.

The fear of forever brought a sensation of ice daggers needling into his gut. This was his world now. Forever.

He clutched harder at his knees. Darkness. Strange smells, sensations, sounds... too much of all of them to make any real sense in any way that matters.

If he is capable of doing this to me, what could he do to my brother? His heart raced faster. It was that thought that made him feel for the edge of the cot bed and swing to put both feet on the floor.

“I’m ready.”

Yeah, I suppose that might give too much away. It's a shame though, because I really liked it, it also shows that Stick might have tried other stuff before resorting to this.

"Follow me then."

The old man offers him no assistance, and he doesn't dare ask for it. A door creaks loudly on the other side of the room. He balls his hands into tight fists and takes a deep breath before taking his first step into the unknown.

Against his will, his hands swing out wildly in front of him and to the sides, creating two wide arcs searching for anything that might be in his path. He feels the hesitancy in his own steps, but he walks, he finds the door.

Ahead, to his left, he hears a ghost of a chuckle and the sound of footsteps echoing on a hard floor. It sounds empty here, and somehow he knows that the way ahead is clear. His hand finds the wall and presses into what feels like decades-old wallpaper; thin and peeling in places, rough to the touch. His fingers trace the wall as lightly as he dares and he picks up speed just slightly, following the much more confident footsteps ahead of him.

Another door opens, and they are outside.

A wave of disorientation passes over him. He feels the sun on his skin and instinctively turns his hear in that direction. He realizes that until this moment, he had been hanging onto the hope that this was a lie, that the old man was keeping him in the dark. But there was no denying the truth of the sun on his face or the light breeze rending his loose t-shirt rippling across his chest in waves.

He takes a deep breath and tries to center himself in the way he has been taught.

Actually, that might be a little bit long for this purpose. And it doesn't have to follow on, does it? In fact, if it's a bit disjointed it might even be better...

I was thinking - the reader doesn't know if we kept the original timeline or not - so I think we might be able to leave the blindfold stuff in. (Maybe they might wonder if Stick got to them before Matt was blinded? Then again, the reader would probably wonder what would put them on his radar without Matt being blind... And, there isn't anything, that we know of.) (I kind of toy with the idea of Stick knowing their mother. LOL.)

I do like this whole Mike's first experiences being blinded thing. Stick's any means to end philosophy is chilling.

Maybe we could skip around to show his 'world on fire' starting to ignite? Or maybe some of the messed up training Stick puts him though? Or some of Mike's despair at knowing everything he's going to miss out on? (Maybe afterwards he goes to the Met. LOL Ohh... and he could arrange to take Matt to one of their touch collection sessions... That, maybe they talk about in the dialogue? Maybe as a sort of lead in... 'Remember that time when I...?')

Actually for the Met thing, I wonder if they'd need supervision... given that they're still kids. Maybe he convinces one of the nuns or something that it's a good field trip and they have mercy on him.

Not sure what the rules would be for somewhere like that about unaccompanied kids. Maybe Mike sneaks in by himself once or twice, and then field trip to get Matt in. Maybe he doesn't even let Matt know he's behind it either.

You have so many Daredevil icons. It's amazing. I need to get more!

I think I'd keep it more or less in order, but not have it as one long scene broken up throughout the story, if that makes sense?

Like maybe skip from where we're at to some of the training. Then maybe to more training, because there'd be loads of that. To Mike starting to notice things he didn't before. Maybe then to more training, growing in confidence and getting better. Maybe Stick coming to him one night and telling him he's proud of him because he know's it's not easy but that he's going to thank him for this in a few years - Mike doesn't believe him, but he still thinks its permanent. Then maybe Mike figuring out some of the other stuff by himself, because Stick doesn't bother teaching him how to do more normal things without vision. Then maybe a scene at the end where he's properly kicking ass and pretty pleased with himself, but still feeling pretty crappy about what's been deliberately done to him.

I like the idea of this kind of bringing Mike and Matt closer. I think the Mike that comes back from the special training will be a pretty different one from the guy that left. I'd maybe leave it a few weeks while he recovers from his ordeal, and then yeah, he could start trying to do stuff like that for Matt, who might be slightly baffled because it's a bit out of character for his brother.

LOL. I think I've only uploaded 8 so far, but thanks. I also found these awesome motion ones - but I can't use them with dreamwidth... file size is too big... boo...

Ohh... Stick saying he'll thank him... Would you? lol I like it. How long do we want to keep him blind? I was originally thinking that the tea lasts for about a week or two before it leaves the system. (Could be longer - tried looking up how long it takes various substances to leave the system - stuff stays in the body for a surprising long time... Though how long it's at a level that makes a result is another thing.) And, Stick can re-up it. (But, every time he does he risks it being permanent.)

I like it bringing them closer, too. Like Mike now has this insight into Matt's world, because he's been there.

I was also thinking, after the ordeal, Stick makes him do a lot of his training blindfolded. Not all the time, but enough that it forces him to use those hard won skills.

Not sure on how long. I think originally we said a week, and then extended it to two, I think that would probably work, if it lasts about a week, and they're coming up to maybe six days, he's making progress but he's not where Stick wants him to be yet, so he gives him some more because he doesn't want his sight to start coming back, or that would spoil the illusion.

I was originally thinking it would last much less time than that, like maybe he has to give him some every day, but there's no way Mike wouldn't put two and two together and refuse to drink it.

You think there's a risk it's permanent? That adds a whole new and scary dimension to the whole thing! What about when he's an adult and Stick makes him drink it again? Does he know that when he does?

Definitely on the blindfolded training. And maybe Mike complains about it one day and Stick offers him the tea as an alternative. He doesn't complain after that.

Yes, he's been there, but Matt doesn't know it. He can't tell him. It's not because Stick told him not to, he just knows exactly what Matt would say. Plus, he really doesn't want to talk about it. Instead, the way he acts around Matt changes subtly. He understands Matt's need for touch, he can explain things in a way Matt understands. Maybe he understands more how capable Matt is too, so he stops being so careful around him. This might be where the label switching starts! :-)

Yeah, that works. I was trying to think what would sound plausible for enough time for Mike to adjust. He does have the advantage of still being a kid - kids are way better at adapting than adults. 6 days sounds good and... yeah, Stick re-ups it, so nearly two weeks. :) (Because. Evil.)

Yeah, I was also wondering what sounds plausible for how long the tea would last. Maybe our guesstimate matters more as to how long we want adult Mike to be blinded... (Whether Stick doses him 2 or 3 times, does it matter? Well, except that he's risking permanency and additional time...) Having to deal with it for a week sounds like a huge, evil annoyance.

I like the permanency risk because it adds tension. And it makes Stick even more of an asshole. lol. (He'd probably prefer it if Mike were blinded.) Maybe it builds up in your system each time you take it? Maybe it can change your body chemistry? Maybe it does damage to the optic nerve? *shrugs* And, yes, I think maybe adult Mike has had plenty of time to research this awful tea and he knows the risks. The fact that he does it anyway shows how much of a hold Stick still has over him. How much he can still be manipulated by him... (Maybe he manipulated Mike into taking it just to get at Matt?)

I like how they're brought closer, yet it's also when Mike starts keeping huge secrets! The dichotomy is delicious. Definitely when the label switching starts! (Maybe he thinks he's helping. lol I mean, he knows he's being a jerk and he thinks it's funny, but it also helps assure Matt that there's at least one person who absolutely knows he's not made out of glass.)

I'm not sure if Stick would prefer it to be permanent or just genuinely not care. If he preferred it that way, I'm sure he could have doubled or tripled the dose and made it happen, but if it's just random he literally doesn't give a damn what the outcome is, that seems worse, somehow.

Maybe when Mike finally finds out he's going to get his sight back, he accuses Stick of lying to him and Stick's all, "Could have gone either way. To be honest, a kid your size, the dose I gave you, I'm surprised it wasn't permanent. What difference does it make anyway? Not like you need to rely on your eyes any more."

Maybe it's a bit of a cumulative effect, so every time you take it it lasts a bit longer. So it starts off, first dose maybe a few days, then he doses him again and it's like five days, then again and it's maybe seven or eight. But because he's not taken it for a while when he's an adult, the effect is reset and he's back to a couple of days.

I also had this idea for the time Stick doses him while he's awake. Maybe he does it like it's some kind of a celebration, like he's done really well, so Stick wants to share this tea ceremony with him or something. Stick can of course drink as much of the stuff as he likes without noticing any difference, so they drink it together and even though it's kind of disgusting, Mike's pretty happy about being able to share it with his teacher like they're equals.

By get at Matt, do you mean piss him off, or get him to talk to him in an effort to recruit him? (Or both!) Because maybe he's tried to recruit Matt again before and he's always refused to talk to him, but he knows that if Mike goes there blind, Matt's going to want answers, the story will come out and Matt will come to him, even if it's just because he wants to hit him. On the other hand, if Matt thinks he's making progress in convincing Mike to stop working with Stick, he could do this just to prove to Matt how in control he still is.

(Ooh, what if the effects last longer than he's expecting them to and for a little while, Mike thinks it might be permanent this time.)

Yeah, that's what I meant, I just wasn't clear. If he really wanted it to be permanent, it would be permanent. I was thinking he doesn't care either way - Mike is more useful without his sight than with it, because of his potential abilities. (He wouldn't deliberately make it permanent, but if it became that way, oh well? Bonus?? lol.)

Cumulative sounds good. I'll go with it. :)

The tea ceremony sounds cool. I was thinking that night, maybe after the ceremony, Stick puts him in restraints and "doses" Mike with the "chemicals" from Matt's accident... (It's really a placebo that stings a bit and there for show. Or, heck, maybe it's those eye drops they use at the optometrist's to dilate your pupils... So, that way, it even does something. LOL.)

Both piss Matt off and recruit him. I was thinking both scenarios - basically Stick's throwing a rock in the pond and hoping the ripples will work out to his benefit? (After season 2, he really, really seems like a master manipulator to me... Even in the last episode, they have him tied to a chair... Stick could've busted out of that easy. He was in the chair because he wanted to be... Everything was coming up Stick. LOL.)

Yeah... Re-traumatize him... yes... Poor, poor Mike... I like it. Now, does Matt know how worried Mike is about it being permanent? Also yes... =)

The reason for the drops - I was thinking that Stick is trying to simulate the trauma that Matt experienced - maybe just in case it wasn't enough to go blind to bring out his abilities, but a perfect storm of things? (That and it would distract from his real method of delivery - the tea...)

Oh, you know... Maybe the drops are over the top. The tea ceremony might be simplier - just if that's the delivery and Mike figures it out... How does he get another dose or two in? Add it to his soup? (Actually, with the super senses, would Mike taste it? Or, does everything taste strange and powerful and too much?)

Hmm, not sure about the drops. I do think it's a good idea, but how would you explain Stick's thinking re trauma as a catalyst without him saying so. I'm assuming this part will all be Mike's POV? Actually, since Mike has no idea about any of this, it might just be better to leave it alone; he thinks he's blind, he thinks it's permanent, he's trying to deal with it. The tea, the drops (also, if Stick starts messing with his eyes, wouldn't that make him think that maybe he was re-administering something and have him suspicious that the situation isn't what it appears?) could all just be random things that happen, but since it's not being explained to him, it can't really be explained to the reader. We want this scene to be kind of scary, too much explanation might take away from it. Might not even need to mention the tea at this point, not I think of it, we don't have to document every thing that happens to him. Unless you particularly want it in, of course, which is fine.

It could be explained later by Mike to Matt I guess, but is it really needed, or is that scene going to be about the b=very basics, Stick hurt his brother, Matt is pissed.

Not sure, basically. Which is no help whatsoever! Sorry :)

Sorry also that this response is so rushed and weird, I've got a letter all 10 minute lunch break today and I;m running the branch. So much stress! :)

Okay, I might have an idea. I was thinking about this all the way home form work!

What happens the first time Stick doses him with the evil!tea? I think before, in the other comm we said Stick knocks him out and doses him while he’s unconscious? What if instead of that, when Mike agrees to take his training to the next level, Stick gives him the evil!tea than, like it’s some kind of thing they do when someone enters that stage of training. It doesn’t take effect straight away, it takes a little while. In the meantime, Stick pins him down and puts something in his eyes. Doesn’t have to drip it in with a dropper either, he could have a really unhygienic looking flask filled with this stuff, then he pins him down, holds his eyes open and literally pours the stuff over him...

It’s around that time that the tea starts taking effect. Whatever’s in the stuff in his eyes makes then sting and burn, but it’s really just a mild irritant and it’s the evil!tea that’s doing the damage.

That way, even if he would have been suspicious of the tea before, the fact that something got poured in his eyes and that’s when he stopped being able to see would leave little doubt that that was what had done it. Even if he was given the tea again later, I don’t think he’d suspect.

So Stick gets his trauma as a catalyst, and Mike probably gets nightmares for the rest of his life.

Re: Where Matt has a real identical twin named Mike who is sighted and is Daredevil

stardreamed - 2016-04-25 17:52 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Where Matt has a real identical twin named Mike who is sighted and is Daredevil

prepare4trouble - 2016-04-25 19:37 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Where Matt has a real identical twin named Mike who is sighted and is Daredevil

prepare4trouble - 2016-04-25 20:05 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Where Matt has a real identical twin named Mike who is sighted and is Daredevil

stardreamed - 2016-04-26 02:17 (UTC) - Expand

Yeah... Re-traumatize him... yes... Poor, poor Mike... I like it. Now, does Matt know how worried Mike is about it being permanent? Also yes... =)

I'd assume he doesn't know that, because Mike wouldn't tell him. Maybe this is just me, but if I'm convinced something awful is going to happen, I keep my mouth shut about it. It's some kind of a superstition, like giving voice to the fear invites it in. So I think he wouldn't even tell Matt that it being permanent was a possibility. In fact, he might make a huge thing of the fact that it's not permanent, that he's done it a bunch of times before and he is completely fine "so please stop worrying, Matt, You're not the only Murdock who can get around in the dark, you know," Or something.

You're right - Mike definitely wouldn't tell him. I don't think he'll ever stop keeping secrets. But, I think Matt knows him well enough that he's suspicious. Especially if it lasts longer than Mike initially said it would...

You're not the only Murdock who can get around in the dark, you know... LOL

I think both their POVs will be fun to right when we get to this. Maybe Matt finds that he likes that there's someone who percieves the world the way he does - but he's also horrified by that fact because he'd never wish this on anyone, especially his brother?

I wonder if Stick gave him a particularly strong dose this time? Hmmm...

Probably did, and told him it was a small dose that would probably wear off by the next day. Then it doesn't...

I think Matt would definitely have mixed feelings about the whole thing, when he gets over the anger. Maybe with his additional years of fighting training, Mike is actually more capable than he is when it comes to combat without vision. Not at he everyday stuff, just fighting. Maybe he can even show Matt a thing or two...